Among our most anticipated products is one concept that ironically has the greatest uphill battle for production: a double stack mag for the Hi Point rifle in our MBS 95 stock. We get asked about it a lot and ever since floating it as an idea, it's generated a fair amount of discussion on forums and customer interactions. We always knew there was a possibility that a double stack mag could one day exist, and with that in mind, we designed the MBS 95 to have a removable magazine bushing in the magwell to provide the space needed, should that elusive double stack ever manifest itself. This got a lot of folks excited, and understandably so. We've been looking at this product concept seriously for a long time now and still get questions regularly on it. So where is it at? Why has it taken so long to make one? Will we ever make one? The short answer is, a double stack magazine concept is still in its infancy and it's possible that will be where it stays for some time. The long answer involves a more technically thorough explanation which we are happy to go into, if you care to read on.
The double stack MBS 95 magazine faces a few challenges. Unfortunately, due to the shape of the Hi Point receiver, it's not quite as simple as incorporating an existing magazine like for Glock or Springfield. A dedicated magazine needs to be designed and built around the geometry of the gun itself. Thus, the double stack column must be reduced to a single stack for a greater distance than is common in most magazines. This isn't an impossible feat, but since it requires an all new design, it also poses new challenges.
Principally, magazines are expensive to design and manufacture, and are highly susceptible to functional issues from even minor tolerance changes from lot to lot. Making them, especially stamped metal double stack mags, takes a good deal of skill and know-how in the manufacturing realm to maintain the reliability and consistency needed to make them work every time. This level of precision is not something every shop can handle and will require large investments in specialized tooling to make such complex parts. Bluntly put, mags are expensive and there isn't much margin to work with. Essentially, we need to make enough on each mag to recoup the costs of design and manufacture, but we also can't price them so high no one buys them.
Furthermore, it is from economies of scale that magazines can be made affordably enough to make them both economically viable as a product and practically priced for the end user. Here's the second major hurdle for this design: the magazine will only fit our MBS 95 stock and it will only work with the specified caliber. This means the market for each caliber of double stack mag is only as large as the pool of existing and future owners of our MBS 95. Even then, many MBS 95 owners live in states where a double stack, higher capacity mag cannot be shipped. Instead of millions of Hi Point owners, our market is the fraction of those who also own our stock.
Until we sell enough stocks that we can confidently pursue a double stack mag, we just can't guarantee anything. We realize this isn't satisfying as an answer but that's the truth of the situation. The good news is, the stock was designed from day 1 with this in mind so even old models can be adapted when the time is right. Until then, we cannot begin to express our gratitude for your business, patience, and support! Thank you so much!
23 Comments
James
If you can ever manufacture a 9mm double stack, I'd order a couple as soon as you announce them being available.
Donovan
I think you missed an important fact. If your stock had double stack magazines for it, I guarantee you would sell more stocks. Probably a lot of them. I already own one, but if I didn't and 15 or 20 round mags (that aren't giant bananas) were only available with one, I would do it, instantly. Not only that, I would buy a second HP carbine and a another HTA stock with mags. I genuinely think you should solve the problem to working prototype, demonstrate it, and you won't even know how to handle the success. Success that could very likely send your company into a new realm of production capability. Worth mentioning, you could also consider making a non-bullpup stock that uses the same magazine, has an insert for factory mag compatibility and capture the audience that do not like bullpups, but also want double mag. It wouldn't be unreasonable to drop $600 to 700 bucks on a HP carbine with a better stock AND the holy grail of HP desires, more than 10 rounds without looking stupid and being tactically useless. I truly believe is you do the engineering work, everything else will fall into place. It is the largest gripe of HP owners and HP detractors, next to the ugliness of the gun. Solve both and you will be gold. Btw, love the bullpup! I was on the early list ??
High Tower Armory, LLC
Hello Donovan! We definitely understand that perspective but there isn't a guarantee of increased sales and perhaps most importantly, that the mags will work. They are hard to prototype due to manufacturing method limitations- a stamped mag requires tools which can be expensive to make. There are also a lot of other factors we take into consideration but the big ones are simple economics. We will continue working on the design concepts where we can but for now we are in a holding pattern of sorts. We appreciate you bearing with us and for your business!
Daniel
Honestly, I would pay 50 bucks for a double stacked hipoint mag.
Jon
How bout a slight longer 15rd.
James
It would be really easy and yes they would work. Redball already did it for their .45 20 round mags. They are single to double stack hybrid. Infact you can cut the single stack portion about 2 inch shorter so that its double stack as soon as it leaved the receiver so for the rest of the magwell and outside the gun is double stack. modifying a redball mag you end up with a short 15 or 16 round magazine only like a half inch longer than a glock mag. but if yall made a new mag like that then you could easily fit a 30 round magazine that only stuck out the magwell about 3" way more compact than what it currently is.
Bob
If you ever do make a double stack magazine I hope you start with the 10 mmr. You can already buy 20 rd mags for 9 mm and 45 cap.
Jacob
Have y’all thought about partnering with a magazine manufacturer? I honestly don’t know how it would work from a business perspective. But I mean I think if y’all and the people at red ball worked together y’all would both benefit from the sales. I guarantee you the biggest response I’ve seen about my gun is that people would get the hi point and stock if it weren’t for the capacity. I dunno just an idea
Randy Hunt
Why do you think the magazine must be stamped? Magpul makes them out of synthetic plastic just like your stocks. You act like your product is not good enough to generate new interest. The only reason I bought your bullpup stock was because your company stated that Hi-Point was going to make a double stack mag for the Yeet Cannon 9mm. Which obviously never took place. Also the idea of my aking a stock that was not a bullpup is a great idea and would definitely increase your sales. The biggest setback of the bullpup is it's horrible trigger pull. The linkage understandably makes it difficult. The first step to improving that would be a lighter original trigger pull to be improved upon. By now Hightower has surely sold a tremendous amount of stocks and would greatly improve if a double stack 9mm mag was created. It's not as difficult as you make it sound. It can be easily accomplished. Have faith in your product or you will turn me any away.
John Cardoso
Any updates as far as the double stack mag?
Raymond
can you tell us how the sales are so far? better than you projected? have more than you thought you would in your warehouses? I just wanna get the idea and i’m sure i’m not the only one! a double stack magazine would definitely be game changing(saying 20 is the limit anyone manufactures, 10 from factory) . and if you were to advertise enough i’m sure it would get out there!
CShack
Hi HTA! I am actually working on developing one now, and would like to know how possible it would be to get in contract with someone that could provide the exact dimensions of the space available once the plug is removed. I AM NOT ASKING FOR THE ENTIRE PLAFORMS DIMENSIONS.
Justin Cohee
You make a great product, naturally I'd be getting some mags if they were produced but the economic and logistics have to line up . Keep on keeping on ??
Dennis Figuerado
Just out of honest courtesy what kind of donation/investment would be needed to truly start a concept run?
High Tower Armory, LLC
Hello Dennis! A magazine will generally cost between $100,000-250,000 to develop so it's not a cheap undertaking haha. That said, if you're donating to anyone, donate to someone who will help make the world a better place and we will keep plugging away on these concepts with our resources. We appreciate it! HTA Support Team
Ammon
I think you are looking at it in the wrong direction. You don’t need to make your own magazine but make an adapter to take someone else magazine. You would not have to have the tooling to make magazines but you could use the tooling you already have to adapt a current magazine already out there. I would look at the m&p shield. The magazine goes from single stack to double stack. If you could make some adapter to take those magazines you would be able to sell that and more stocks. I think you have a solid product and you guys and gals are on the right track. Keep up the good work.
High Tower Armory, LLC
Hello Ammon- thank you for your message and kind words! The issue is that the receiver of the Hi Point will only work with a specific shape not found on other existing magazines which is why we'd need to make our own. Hope that helps shed some light on the scope of the issue and thank you again!
Gary
Although I do not own a Hi-Point carbine at present, I do plan on purchasing one in the future. Of course, I have been eyeing your bullpup stock as a necessary addition. In make a purchasing decision, I'm impressed by the foresight in design of accommodating magazines that might come in the future. Additionally, as a future customer, I would like to commend you for your transparency and dialogue with your customers, past, present, and future. Quite frankly, it's refreshing. I appreciate your honesty and openness with the challenges you face. Not only do we become educated on the process you must go through with design, production, and cost, but as we follow your pursuit of improvement, you have welcomed us to join you on your journey. In doing so, you've offered more than just a product, but a business who cares about their customers' opinions - and it's things like that money cannot buy.
Huehuecoyotl
Has anyone on the team yet considered using additive manufacturing (3d printing) to prototype designs, either for the mag itself or for a bushing capable of adapting other brands magazines? It seems like the most obvious choice for prototyping, since prototypes don't need to be overly durable, you don't need any specialized equipment for either metalwork stamping or for nylon injection molding, and you can adjust designs on the fly to fine tune the final product. Also, while the mag release built into the default stock is nice, a push button on the mag well would be a fair trade for a high capacity solution. People have been designing 3d printed platforms and adapting various guns to feed from Glock mags for a few years now on platforms such as the Recession Ruger (Ruger P95, P85, and P89), Big PP95 (Ruger P95), AR9 lowers, and a bunch more.
Justin Albert
While I really want a double stack magazine HTA carbine (and would probably build a second one if HTA manufactured them); let’s take a second to thank these guys for explaining the situation and being realistic rather than BS or rush out a garbage project that costs too much. Thanks High Tower, you guys continue to be class acts.
Timothy
Just out hi point yc9 double stack. I understand they are completely different firearms. Something to look forward too I guess.
Jake Waybright
The new high point YC9 just got released with its double stack mags and I’m curious if those would work with the high point carbine and if you would be coming up with mag well adapters for them also I was wondering if you would perhaps come out with 20-30 round extension kits for the new high point double stack mags?
Jake Waybright
The new high point YC9 just got released with its double stack mags and I’m curious if those would work with the high point carbine and if you would be coming up with mag well adapters for them also I was wondering if you would perhaps come out with 20-30 round extension kits for the new high point double stack mags?
Connor Bazley
Hello HTA! I've been thinking about your explanation on the costs and limited customer base associated with the MBS stock product line. It all makes sense, and things cost money to develop. No surprise there. That said, I was wondering if y'all have considered reaching out to Hi Point to partner up in a more official capacity. Say, offering the MBS as an option when ordering directly from their website, and a (paid) optional upgrade when replacing customers firearms under warranty. I realize marketing with ads is freaking expensive - but when you're reaching more people through their official website/warranty systems, social media etc...the demand could very well rise to meet the goal. If I may be so bold to suggest, perhaps such a partnership and the resulting cross-pollination of ideas might even lead to a refresh of the overall platform design, addressing the issues with feeding geometry and such. It makes sense to myself that Co-Development of the entire package might also help to keep costs down for both companies, although to be honest I've never run my own company, so it's just theory at this point. I just want this sort of thing to succeed. Offering quality products at affordable prices for as many people as possible, sticking together, bringing more competition into the marketplace... Anyway I'll stop rambling now, big thanks for what y'all do already! Regards, - Connor
Duane
I just purchased the Promag 50rd drum for the high point 995, but it does not fit due to a small plastic piece that sits on the mag that prevents it from being fully inserted. Has anyone else purchased this?
Billy
Yes and I cut that piece off and it still will not lock in. I’ve been looking for answers all day! Please let me know if you figured it out!
Garrett
I’m interested in the mag issue, have you ever considered designing 3D printable projects for us to print our own double stack mags? Sell the prints for $?
Dan Random
I would jump at the double stack mags. I'm not a gunsmith but can't help wondering if the receiver could be machined to take such a magazine. I've seen an adapter that allows use of 1911 mags. I have looked for images and youtubes of the MBS 95 with a drum mag and no luck finding examples. Double stack would be better. I'm going to try the 14 rnd aftermarkets
Kong Vue
I'm hoping you guys do priced with a double stack mag. I know it's more complex than what others say... just by looking at the design it would hand to by a hybrid from bottom (double stack) to top (single stack). Kind of like the quad stack AR15 mags. Either way if you can get a 30 round mag that would be a seller. At least I would buy one to keep as a home defense mag. But there's already mags out there at hold 15 and 20 rounds. If you can shorten it... I think a lot of people would be interested in purchasing at least 1 to 2 mags.